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	<title>Comments on: Nintendo Gives Us Demo Play, Makes Us Uncomfortable</title>
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	<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/</link>
	<description>By Canadian Gamers</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3792</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3792</guid>
		<description>Having been a Nintendo fanboy for a long time, this demo play Nintendo is making is a dream come true for me. I own alot of Nintendo Power player guides from the N64/GCN era, but sometimes seeing something in motion is better then reading about it.

Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat for GCN/Wii is the first game, to my knowledge, that had mini-videos of how to improve your beat score. Maybe it was a testig ground for demo play?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been a Nintendo fanboy for a long time, this demo play Nintendo is making is a dream come true for me. I own alot of Nintendo Power player guides from the N64/GCN era, but sometimes seeing something in motion is better then reading about it.</p>
<p>Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat for GCN/Wii is the first game, to my knowledge, that had mini-videos of how to improve your beat score. Maybe it was a testig ground for demo play?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3790</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3790</guid>
		<description>Here here Shaun, well said.

No one argues that &quot;casual sex&quot; is any less fun/enjoyable then the &quot;core&quot; or &quot;monogamous&quot; kind. (In fact, one might argue that it&#039;s *more* exciting.. ;) )

Casual simply reflects a level of attention, or devotion. A level of interest outside the time you are actually playing. Ie. How much do you think about it when you are NOT doing it?  Since we are all &quot;core&quot; gamers and enthusiasts, we think about games a lot, even when we aren&#039;t playing them.

But that doesn&#039;t mean the &quot;casual&quot; player, when playing, isn&#039;t having just a good at time or is just as invested in their particular play session.  &quot;Casual&quot; gamers can still have a &quot;hardcore&quot; amount of fun when playing their particular game.

NSMBW is hoped to be the game to help bridge the core Nintendo audience with the mainstream. If anything can, Mario certainly seems to be person to do it and as I brought up on the podcast, Mario Galaxy didn&#039;t seem to succeed in this regard.  If I want NSMBW to be the game that I can play with my &quot;casual&quot;/&quot;mainstream&quot; family, then this feature will surely be a welcomed one.

Failing at a game means frustration. Long time gamers are used to challenging this sense of frustration into a sort of &quot;challenge&quot; to overcome (up to a point, usually when the controller is thrown into the television ;) ).  However those with only a casual interest in the hobby probably aren&#039;t willing to put up with as much of it as we are.

  So rather then having my unskilled family get frustrated and give up on NSMBW, Nintendo has decided to give them the option of having the game help them.  While &quot;taking control&quot; seems a tad invasive, it is a particularly competent way of solving that problem. (Having a &quot;bot&quot; take over in Left4Dead when you enter &quot;idle&quot; mode (to go to the bathroom etc) works particularly well).

Traditionally this help would have taken the form of me saying &quot;here, give me the controller&quot; and doing it for them.  Since its&#039; a co-op game, that could be difficult. Plus it&#039;s nice to know they can still play without me around.

Will I use it myself? Maybe, maybe not, in that sense it&#039;s really no different then other &quot;cheats&quot;, which have been in games from time to time.  This is just a more &quot;accessible&quot; version.

So if this helps this game bridge the gap between &quot;casual&quot; and &quot;core&quot; Nintendo fans, so that we can all have a &quot;hardcore&quot; amount of fun, I whole-heartedly support it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here here Shaun, well said.</p>
<p>No one argues that &#8220;casual sex&#8221; is any less fun/enjoyable then the &#8220;core&#8221; or &#8220;monogamous&#8221; kind. (In fact, one might argue that it&#8217;s *more* exciting.. <img src='http://www.torontothumbs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>Casual simply reflects a level of attention, or devotion. A level of interest outside the time you are actually playing. Ie. How much do you think about it when you are NOT doing it?  Since we are all &#8220;core&#8221; gamers and enthusiasts, we think about games a lot, even when we aren&#8217;t playing them.</p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t mean the &#8220;casual&#8221; player, when playing, isn&#8217;t having just a good at time or is just as invested in their particular play session.  &#8220;Casual&#8221; gamers can still have a &#8220;hardcore&#8221; amount of fun when playing their particular game.</p>
<p>NSMBW is hoped to be the game to help bridge the core Nintendo audience with the mainstream. If anything can, Mario certainly seems to be person to do it and as I brought up on the podcast, Mario Galaxy didn&#8217;t seem to succeed in this regard.  If I want NSMBW to be the game that I can play with my &#8220;casual&#8221;/&#8221;mainstream&#8221; family, then this feature will surely be a welcomed one.</p>
<p>Failing at a game means frustration. Long time gamers are used to challenging this sense of frustration into a sort of &#8220;challenge&#8221; to overcome (up to a point, usually when the controller is thrown into the television <img src='http://www.torontothumbs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).  However those with only a casual interest in the hobby probably aren&#8217;t willing to put up with as much of it as we are.</p>
<p>  So rather then having my unskilled family get frustrated and give up on NSMBW, Nintendo has decided to give them the option of having the game help them.  While &#8220;taking control&#8221; seems a tad invasive, it is a particularly competent way of solving that problem. (Having a &#8220;bot&#8221; take over in Left4Dead when you enter &#8220;idle&#8221; mode (to go to the bathroom etc) works particularly well).</p>
<p>Traditionally this help would have taken the form of me saying &#8220;here, give me the controller&#8221; and doing it for them.  Since its&#8217; a co-op game, that could be difficult. Plus it&#8217;s nice to know they can still play without me around.</p>
<p>Will I use it myself? Maybe, maybe not, in that sense it&#8217;s really no different then other &#8220;cheats&#8221;, which have been in games from time to time.  This is just a more &#8220;accessible&#8221; version.</p>
<p>So if this helps this game bridge the gap between &#8220;casual&#8221; and &#8220;core&#8221; Nintendo fans, so that we can all have a &#8220;hardcore&#8221; amount of fun, I whole-heartedly support it.</p>
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		<title>By: sobe</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3779</link>
		<dc:creator>sobe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3779</guid>
		<description>I think it would be easy to include hard mode in any nintendo 2d platform game with slight changes. For example in Starfy there is a minecart level where you can crash through the wooden barriers, if they killed you it would instantly be much harder. Levels in mario where the screen moves and you have to keep up with it- make it move much faster? smaller platforms, bosses with more health etc, it would be relatively simple to implement if thought about during the planning stage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be easy to include hard mode in any nintendo 2d platform game with slight changes. For example in Starfy there is a minecart level where you can crash through the wooden barriers, if they killed you it would instantly be much harder. Levels in mario where the screen moves and you have to keep up with it- make it move much faster? smaller platforms, bosses with more health etc, it would be relatively simple to implement if thought about during the planning stage</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Love</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3775</guid>
		<description>I was hoping someone was going to mention how clever Retro Game Challenge was for putting cheats and tips into the game magazines on the book shelf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hoping someone was going to mention how clever Retro Game Challenge was for putting cheats and tips into the game magazines on the book shelf.</p>
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		<title>By: rey-o</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3774</link>
		<dc:creator>rey-o</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3774</guid>
		<description>A call for cooler heads to prevail. Nicely written.

If I have a problem with this, it&#039;s that it doesn&#039;t seem tightly integrated into the gameplay. I can understand the need for a feature like this, but why not make a game out of it, in and of itself?

Professor Layton comes to mind. The game has it&#039;s own built in gamefaqs, and yet, it never gives you completely the solution, instead providing you hints in degrees of obviousness.

Taking on a hint comes at the price of a coin, something that I feel would work nicely in Mario (and afterall, why do we collect coins for anyway?) and additionally there is an aspect of &#039;buyers remorse&#039; when you finally do buy a clue.

In Layton, often times the answer so obvious that you end up saying, &quot;ooooh, why didn&#039;t I think of that!?!&quot;, and immediately regret expending a coin. This creates a kind of metagame where you are constantly weighing the pros and cons of using hints, to say nothing of your own personal pride that is at stake, should you constantly rely on hints.

A system like Layton applied to Mario could allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too, newcomers can have their auto-play and veterans can keep their pride. Win Win?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A call for cooler heads to prevail. Nicely written.</p>
<p>If I have a problem with this, it&#8217;s that it doesn&#8217;t seem tightly integrated into the gameplay. I can understand the need for a feature like this, but why not make a game out of it, in and of itself?</p>
<p>Professor Layton comes to mind. The game has it&#8217;s own built in gamefaqs, and yet, it never gives you completely the solution, instead providing you hints in degrees of obviousness.</p>
<p>Taking on a hint comes at the price of a coin, something that I feel would work nicely in Mario (and afterall, why do we collect coins for anyway?) and additionally there is an aspect of &#8216;buyers remorse&#8217; when you finally do buy a clue.</p>
<p>In Layton, often times the answer so obvious that you end up saying, &#8220;ooooh, why didn&#8217;t I think of that!?!&#8221;, and immediately regret expending a coin. This creates a kind of metagame where you are constantly weighing the pros and cons of using hints, to say nothing of your own personal pride that is at stake, should you constantly rely on hints.</p>
<p>A system like Layton applied to Mario could allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too, newcomers can have their auto-play and veterans can keep their pride. Win Win?</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3773</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3773</guid>
		<description>As far as Nintendo&#039;s options for changing the level of difficulty in a game: I&#039;d guess you could make a game like Mario quite a bit harder simply by tweaking the patterns in which everything occurs. Think how much harder it is when you try to complete a section of a map when attempting it with the creatures/hazards are out of synch... Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as Nintendo&#8217;s options for changing the level of difficulty in a game: I&#8217;d guess you could make a game like Mario quite a bit harder simply by tweaking the patterns in which everything occurs. Think how much harder it is when you try to complete a section of a map when attempting it with the creatures/hazards are out of synch&#8230; Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMaverickk</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMaverickk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Excellent, it&#039;s always great to read well written articles that have a truck load of common sense in the none-sensical world of video game players. 

If only every gamer could have this realization then we wouldn&#039;t have all the outrage that flurries constantly at every new decision and idea Nintendo has.

In anycase I even liked that you touched on the difficulty setting in Nintendo games, or lack there of. 

I personally have never found a difficulty setting necessary. For the most part there wouldn&#039;t be much that Nintendo could do to implement it. I mean what would they do for a Mario game at a higher difficulty level? Pull a Mega Man 9 and have every level over again but just with more enemies, or perhaps buzzy beetles (akin to the original Mario Bros. game). 

Maybe Small mode where you play the game and die after a single hit (considering even a powered up Mario only takes two hits to die).

Zelda titles and Metroid titles also allow a lot of flexibility to play the games without extending ones health bar. Zelda can be beaten with 3 hearts and it can be a challenge without proper supplies and strategies. Metroid is beyond too difficult for me with only a single energy tank (dare I say Metroid Prime 3 is impoissible with one?).

The only thing in those cases is the gamers habit is always to collect as much as possible, which makes the game easier undoubtedly. Treasure hogs and 100% completists are probably to OCD to let a single important item slip by. 

I think Nintendo&#039;s philosophy in terms of difficulty has always been &quot;the player chooses how difficult the game is&quot;... which unless a gamer is forced to, they will likely take the easier path. 

Just some pieces of thought for perhaps a future discussion on game difficulties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, it&#8217;s always great to read well written articles that have a truck load of common sense in the none-sensical world of video game players. </p>
<p>If only every gamer could have this realization then we wouldn&#8217;t have all the outrage that flurries constantly at every new decision and idea Nintendo has.</p>
<p>In anycase I even liked that you touched on the difficulty setting in Nintendo games, or lack there of. </p>
<p>I personally have never found a difficulty setting necessary. For the most part there wouldn&#8217;t be much that Nintendo could do to implement it. I mean what would they do for a Mario game at a higher difficulty level? Pull a Mega Man 9 and have every level over again but just with more enemies, or perhaps buzzy beetles (akin to the original Mario Bros. game). </p>
<p>Maybe Small mode where you play the game and die after a single hit (considering even a powered up Mario only takes two hits to die).</p>
<p>Zelda titles and Metroid titles also allow a lot of flexibility to play the games without extending ones health bar. Zelda can be beaten with 3 hearts and it can be a challenge without proper supplies and strategies. Metroid is beyond too difficult for me with only a single energy tank (dare I say Metroid Prime 3 is impoissible with one?).</p>
<p>The only thing in those cases is the gamers habit is always to collect as much as possible, which makes the game easier undoubtedly. Treasure hogs and 100% completists are probably to OCD to let a single important item slip by. </p>
<p>I think Nintendo&#8217;s philosophy in terms of difficulty has always been &#8220;the player chooses how difficult the game is&#8221;&#8230; which unless a gamer is forced to, they will likely take the easier path. </p>
<p>Just some pieces of thought for perhaps a future discussion on game difficulties.</p>
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		<title>By: overtninja</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3771</link>
		<dc:creator>overtninja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3771</guid>
		<description>one could also consider this point:  if they have a feature that allows a game to &#039;play itself&#039;, as designers they have the option of designing the game to be HARDER while still being able to retain the large number of people playing the wii who may not be gamers themselves.  this way, people who game in a more serious (haha) capacity will be challenged and those who are more &#039;casual&#039; will have the option of essentially bypassing the most challenging segments of the game while still deriving pleasure from the overall experience.   which, last time i checked, was the point of video games in the first place. ;p

really, looking at it from this perspective, it&#039;s a very clever business move because it allows nintendo and 3rd party developers to cater to a more hardcore gamer crowd with the challenge level and complexity of their games without simultaneously alienating the broad base that has mad the wii successful as a system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one could also consider this point:  if they have a feature that allows a game to &#8216;play itself&#8217;, as designers they have the option of designing the game to be HARDER while still being able to retain the large number of people playing the wii who may not be gamers themselves.  this way, people who game in a more serious (haha) capacity will be challenged and those who are more &#8216;casual&#8217; will have the option of essentially bypassing the most challenging segments of the game while still deriving pleasure from the overall experience.   which, last time i checked, was the point of video games in the first place. ;p</p>
<p>really, looking at it from this perspective, it&#8217;s a very clever business move because it allows nintendo and 3rd party developers to cater to a more hardcore gamer crowd with the challenge level and complexity of their games without simultaneously alienating the broad base that has mad the wii successful as a system.</p>
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		<title>By: kurokotetsu</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3770</link>
		<dc:creator>kurokotetsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3770</guid>
		<description>There is one thing. The demo play doesn&#039;t kick in if you don&#039;t want to. If you don&#039;t like the system, ignore it. It is that simple. I don&#039;t see the fuss. it is like if someone complains about the cup holders in a car, because there weren&#039;t any before. Simply ignore it ad play it the traditional way. This is to make games accesible for everyone, God, Nintendo now can even make a Ninja Gaiden hard game, where gamers can try to finish it the normal way and other people simply enjoy it and when they get stuck simply let the game finish that impossible part by itself. A lot of gamers complain that casuals should access more traditional games, this tachnology could allow that, as anybody can play any game that has the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one thing. The demo play doesn&#8217;t kick in if you don&#8217;t want to. If you don&#8217;t like the system, ignore it. It is that simple. I don&#8217;t see the fuss. it is like if someone complains about the cup holders in a car, because there weren&#8217;t any before. Simply ignore it ad play it the traditional way. This is to make games accesible for everyone, God, Nintendo now can even make a Ninja Gaiden hard game, where gamers can try to finish it the normal way and other people simply enjoy it and when they get stuck simply let the game finish that impossible part by itself. A lot of gamers complain that casuals should access more traditional games, this tachnology could allow that, as anybody can play any game that has the system.</p>
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		<title>By: The Wolfkin</title>
		<link>http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3769</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wolfkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.torontothumbs.com/2009/06/16/nintendo-gives-us-demo-play-option-and-this-makes-us-feel-uncomfortable/#comment-3769</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll read the article in the morning but the thing that struck me when I heard about this feature was 1st: How idiotic and then 2nd: how is this different from Alone in the Dark&#039;s DVD feature. It was my understanding that AitD (and Alan Wake? ugh I still haven&#039;t seen the MSoft conference) had a feature that would let you pick the level to play like DVD chapters. So you could see the entire game even if you weren&#039;t skilled enough to complete the entire things. I remember reading praise about it. Like it was really that cool. Functionally how is that and this different?

Personally I&#039;m inclined to dislike this feature. I&#039;m open to having my mind changed so I can&#039;t officially hate it until it&#039;s out there and I can see what it is but this sounds really lame. The frustrating part is that I&#039;m having trouble elaborating on why that is. Obviously I prefer the Mario World Model where if you have trouble with stage A sometimes you have a secondary path to go around it, but just because I have a better solution doesn&#039;t logically invalidate the current solution. After all candles DO work as a light source even if light bulbs are better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll read the article in the morning but the thing that struck me when I heard about this feature was 1st: How idiotic and then 2nd: how is this different from Alone in the Dark&#8217;s DVD feature. It was my understanding that AitD (and Alan Wake? ugh I still haven&#8217;t seen the MSoft conference) had a feature that would let you pick the level to play like DVD chapters. So you could see the entire game even if you weren&#8217;t skilled enough to complete the entire things. I remember reading praise about it. Like it was really that cool. Functionally how is that and this different?</p>
<p>Personally I&#8217;m inclined to dislike this feature. I&#8217;m open to having my mind changed so I can&#8217;t officially hate it until it&#8217;s out there and I can see what it is but this sounds really lame. The frustrating part is that I&#8217;m having trouble elaborating on why that is. Obviously I prefer the Mario World Model where if you have trouble with stage A sometimes you have a secondary path to go around it, but just because I have a better solution doesn&#8217;t logically invalidate the current solution. After all candles DO work as a light source even if light bulbs are better.</p>
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